Compare Grizzly Bear vs Siberian Tiger

By | August 15, 2014

Who will win the fight between Grizzly Bear and Siberian Tiger?

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After comparing African lion vs Grizzly bear in my previous article here I am moving to one step forward with Compare Grizzly bear Vs Siberian tiger. As you all know Tigers are more technical and intelligent than African lion so here is the perfect match for grizzly bear to prove his robustness and power against the big Siberian tiger.

Grizzly bear is the strong and powerful North American bear mainly found in USA and Canada, it is the subspecies of brown bear and once grizzlies were found in whole USA to Mexico but now they are in the status of endangered species as declared by the IUCN.

As you can sense from the name Siberian tiger that it is from Siberia in Russia and they are also known as Amur tiger. In many region of Russia, Siberia tigers are almost extinct in the wild and they are mostly found in captivity and zoo but the government of Russia is try to reintroduced them in wild by making large wild life centuries. They are also in the status of endangered species as declared by IUCN.

North American grizzly bear can weigh 340 kg with the head and body length of 7 ft 8 inch and the shoulder height is around 3 ft 5 inch to 4 ft 1 inch, on the other hand Siberian tiger who is slightly smaller than Grizzly bear can weigh 305 kg with the length of 7 ft 4 inch including head and the shoulder height vary from 3 ft to 3 ft 3 inch.

Siberian tiger is the largest living or extant felid ever exist on earth and they use to prey on musk deer, sika deer, goral and Manchurian wapiti. They are also known for prey on brown and black bear in Siberia. On the other side grizzly bear feed or prey on moose, deer, sheep, bison, fishes and birds. Like Siberian tiger grizzly bears also hunt and kill black bear rarely.

Here is the stats and facts in below given table on compare Grizzly Bear Vs Siberian Tiger.

Grizzly Bear Vs Siberian Tiger Comparison

Grizzly Bear Vs Siberian Tiger Comparison

Grizzly Bear Vs Siberian Tiger Comparison
AnimalsGrizzly BearSiberian Tiger
KingdomAnimaliaAnimalia
FamilyUrsidaeFelidae
GenusUrsusPanthera
OrderCarnivoraCarnivora
SpeciesU.arctos ssp.P.tigris
Average Head &  Body Length7 ft 8 inch7 ft 4 inch
Shoulder Height4 ft 1 inch3 ft 3 inch
Average Weight340 kg305 kg
AreaUSA and CanadaRussia
Force4 (very good)5 (excellent)
Technique5 (excellent)5 (excellent)
Stamina5 (excellent)4 (very good)
Intelligent4 (very good)5 (excellent)
StatusEndangeredEndangered
Average Life Span25 year18 years

Winning facts for both Grizzly Bear and Siberian Tiger:

Siberian Tiger is far better hunter than North American grizzly bear.

Both grizzly bear and Siberian tiger paw swipes are equally powerful but tiger is more technical than grizzly.

Siberian tiger canine teeth are longer and thicker than grizzly bear.

Grizzly bear is slightly heavier, longer and taller than Siberian tiger.

Siberian tiger once use to kill brown bear for its food in Russia when there was the lack of natural prey.

Both are solitary hunters but Siberian tiger use to take down large prey and predators than North American Grizzly bear.

In Russia, Siberian tiger alone once killed a pack of 3 wolves at a time which I think grizzly can’t do.

Siberian tigers are well known for killing Asiatic black bears for its diet and according to stats black bears constitute 8 % of their diet.

It is very difficult to find grip on grizzly bear neck and other sensitive body parts because grizzly bear is full of fat which protects him from internal injury.

No doubt that both Grizzly bear and Siberian tiger are fiercer hunter and fighter, it is interesting to see who is going to win the battle because both hunters can stand on their hind legs and can maul with both front paws simultaneously.

I think Siberian Tiger has more advantage over grizzly bear, as tiger is quicker, faster, cleverer, and intelligent than grizzly. Tiger also possesses strong muscular body and forelimbs than grizzly in fact tiger has one of the strongest muscular body than any other carnivora predator.

Head to Head Fight:

According to stats, facts and history, Siberian tiger always has the upper hand over grizzly bear and will win in head to head fight.

212 thoughts on “Compare Grizzly Bear vs Siberian Tiger

  1. Anonymous

    Actually, the bear is smarter than the tiger. Also, the grizzly is more capable in a face-to-face encounter. The tiger is a specialized ambush predator, attacking unexpectedly from the rear. In every known actual historical fight between these two, the grizzly defeated the tiger.

    Reply
    1. Wolf Riegert

      In a study by the Russian government the bear was killed 2 out of three times in encounters with tigers,Brown bears that is.

      Reply
    2. Tiger

      I don’t know about the Intelligence one what you said nether with the bear has defeated the Tiger more in think its the other way arounf

      Reply
    3. Sage

      Yeah, this whole article is BS. Bear destroys lions every time, & lions will sometimes take tigers. It’s not a competition. Bear wins.

      Reply
      1. Ajax tarver

        Bs. Tigers are the supreme fighter. You are delusuonal. Probably some jealous dog fan boy.

        Reply
      2. Jack

        Not always, tiger is more agile and is more of a killer than the bear is.

        Reply
    4. ganesh kumar

      Siberian tiger once use to kill brown bear for its food in Russia when there was the lack of natural prey.

      Both are solitary hunters but Siberian tiger use to take down large prey and predators than North American Grizzly bear.

      In Russia, Siberian tiger alone once killed a pack of 3 wolves at a time which I think grizzly can’t do.

      Reply
    5. markiza

      which “every known” actual historical fight? you mind providing links? on every account you are wrong though. bear, in higher probability, wouldn’t even fight a tiger, and walk the other way. that’s based on self-preservation and, mostly, bears look for “easy” meals, mostly eating berries and grasses, small animals, insects, pretty much nothing that will challenge them. tigers, on the other hand, hunt every day of their lives alone, and don’t walk away from a fight, they fight to the death. being an ambush predator, tigers are also smarter, cleverer fighters, and they need higher intelligence for that, so it’d give bears 3.7 out of 5, and tigers will get 5++ on the intelligence scale. bears simply rely on their size.

      Reply
      1. Mick

        I agree with your pts. Tigers kill black bears easily. Grizzly is bigger and stronger but Tigers are faster and as powerful. There are some videos on youtube of some encounters.

        Reply
        1. Richard Swift

          Tigers also have more lean muscle mass where bears eat a large amount of food before hy

          ibernating and a large component of their body weight is fat.

          Reply
    6. Derek

      I think this one could go either way.

      Male bears seek out fights with other male bears. This is a huge advantage for the bear since they are used to fighting something of similar size with claws and teeth that is actively fighting back. A tiger would basically just be a good-ol-fashion round of fisticuffs. XD

      Not that it would be any different for the tiger since they are used to encounters with bears. Although they actively avoid full grown adult males “not because they cant fight them, but to prevent injury”, they would still have a general idea of how to fight one. In addition to that they are more geared for taking down large prey than the Grizzly, giving them a better chance of getting a hold of the neck for a killing blow.

      I would still go bear just because they have the advantage in size, weight, and endurance. But that said if the Tiger won I wouldn’t be too bent out of shape or surprised.

      Reply
  2. Jet

    Here’s what I found after a quick search:

    According to Gary Brown’s Great Bear Almanac (New York, 1993), the average mature male brown bear (of which Grizzly is a subspecies) weighs 500-900 lbs with a length of 7-10 feet while the average mature male polar bear weighs 900-1500 lbs with a length of 8-8.4 feet. However, the largest ever recorded brown bear was 2500+ lbs while the largest ever recorded polar bear was 2210 lbs.

    But a grizzly is much more fearsome than a polar bear. The grizzly has a shorter, thicker neck, heavily built skull and more powerful shoulder structure. Despite being a good foot shorter, the grizzly has a trump card. Their claws, having evolved as digging tools, are also unmatched at opening body carcasses. Claws of 6″ aren’t uncommon (9″ record) while the polar bear has small hook-like 2″ claws. Sometimes, when the ice melts, polar bears have been known to be driven off by grizzlies, when they move south into the grizzlies feeding area. In North America, grizzly males fight each other regularly and gain great skill at fighting, while many Siberian tigers will never fight anything their whole life that isn’t smaller and weaker. Cougars and wolf packs and other bears flee from a large grizzly, or else become dinner.

    The grizzly bear has enormous bone and muscle density. They have developed into huge and enormously powerful animals. Big cat biology is very different. They have evolved powerful elastic muscles over a low weight, low density bone structure to suit their purpose of chasing down prey. The Californians of the late 19th century staged well-documented pit fights with grizzlies and spanish bulls. The grizzlies, using their paw as a club, shattered the unfortunate bull’s skull or shoulder bones so easily that the betting became poor. Eventually, and at considerable cost, African lions were brought in to raise the stakes, but the grizzly killed the male lions almost as easily as they’d killed the bulls.

    This is one account of a fight between a 700 lb grizzly and a 550 lb male lion. The grizzly had never fought a lion before and the lion surprised it by leaping 15 feet in the air. The grizzly stood up and held off the lions teeth with its paws, but it allowed the lion to rip its claws deep into the bear’s underbelly. There was blood but little real damage to the bear, because beneath the extremely thick skin is a deep layer of fat. The animals continued to hold this position for 19 minutes while the lion continued to take deep swipes into the bear’s underbelly, swipes that would have torn out the internal organs of a lion or tiger, and ripped into the layers of fat but did basically no real damage to the grizzly. The animals broke apart, and the grizzly tried to bite and swipe at the lion, who was far too quick. Then with the grizzly on two feet the lion managed to lunge and get a bite on the grizzly’s neck, but the bear squeezed the lion with such force that the lion released and fell to the ground, and was lucky to escape the bear. The bear’s neck was protected by thick fur so the bear was still basically unharmed. The lion repeated the attack, again getting his teeth to the bear’s neck, and again the bear squeezed. The lion seemed determined to hold on till death but the bear squeezed so hard the lion released with a roar of pain (one observer remarked, “I could almost hear the bones cracking.”) and the bear threw the lion in the air, the lion turning a complete summersault. The lion gave up on frontal assaults and tried to attack the bear from the rear. The bear, showing agility not seen up to this point, turned, grabbed the lion, and lifted him into the air. With the lion’s head dangling, the bear began squeezing and shaking the feline as if it weighed the same as a house cat. The bear then lifted his opponent into the air and threw him against the side of the cage, knocking the lion unconscious.

    Result: lion completely helpless while the bear suffered only some scratches, taking much less damage than a typical grizzly on grizzly fight. I have read that Siberian tigers do sometimes kill local bears that are smaller, but larger local bears also kill Siberian tigers. But neither the larger Asian bears or the Siberian tigers are any match for a large Grizzly.

    Reply
    1. truthneverlies

      i read a brown bear is dinner to siberian tiger. i read many articles on it but never heard a brown bear killing a siberian tiger. brown bears run away from siberian tigers. even in india bengal tigers(smaller than siberian tiger) kill black bears.

      Reply
      1. Anonymous

        Even if the bear DID run, (which it wouldn’t. Get your facts right. LOL) it would still be able to outrun the tiger becaue the tiger would give up a lot faster than the bear would.

        Reply
        1. James W.

          The tiger can sprint much faster than the bear..
          …so it would rapidly catch it & disable/kill it quickly,
          & for sure, yeah – this is what tigers naturally do, for a living..

          Bears spend more time sniffin’ around garbage,
          digging through dumpsters, & dirt grubbing..

          Reply
    2. James

      I agree with you but I don’t think the guy who wrote this looked into it much. On his comparison with the bear and lion he had the bears intelligence at 5 while the the lions was four, but with the tiger vs bear it was at 4 and the tigers at 5 so…

      Reply
    3. Tony\Aka\jaguar (All the same person)

      Jet, the whole thing you just said is B.S. Siberian tiger is the ultimate predator, whereas grizzly bear sucks at hunting.
      Siberian tiger wins against grizzly. Not easily, but it still would win. The only carnivore that stands a chance against it is the polar bear, which would probably win. But tiger takes grizzly. Siberian tiger is stronger, much faster, more agile, and killed brown bears when there was lack of natural prey in Siberia. It’s not hard. Tiger wins.

      Reply
  3. Colt

    I don’t think you understood the point of this Jet. It’s to compare an “Average” Grizzly bear and an average Siberian tiger. Now if it was the largest ever recorded of course bear would have it in its clutches, just because of how big it can grow. But i’ve met people in Russia and it’s a common fact that Tigers prey on Grizzlies, and no not baby Grizzly bears, FULLY adult bears. Also i don’t know where you got your facts from but bears are no where near as smart as tigers. Which has been proven many times over. No need to even argue there, because you don’t have facts. But just a random fact, one of the best memories of any animal even beating us in memory capacity and length is the Tiger.

    Reply
  4. M

    I think you may be confused Colt.. as there are no grizzly bears in Russia.

    Reply
    1. Jon

      Yes there is they are called Kamchatka bears. They are exactly the same bear with a different name. Kamchatka being the location of the bear found. Same scientific name exact same genome.

      Reply
      1. David

        That’s not entirely true, kamchatka bears are closely related to American grizzly bears, but they are different subspecies of brown bears. Also their territory doesn’t overlap with Siberian tigers which makes your point moot.

        Reply
        1. Pat F

          David, they are the same bear. If a grizzly and a kamcharka bear mated they would have a perfectly healthy reproducing brown bear. Also I watch a documentary and siberians do hunt brown bear.

          Reply
  5. tyson

    i dont give a shit tiger or lion are no match for a fully grown adult male healthy bear despite what i have read here.

    Reply
    1. James W.

      Does bear shit stick to its fur?

      You can continue to fantasize T, but denial aint healthy,
      – just as a fat-as dumpster diving garbage-guts bruin
      wouldn’t be – if a big cat with a taste for bear meat – got his hooks in..

      Although I have heard that salmon fed bear-meat is distasteful to humans,
      for sure, most cats do seem keen on fish flavourings..

      The Russians have research findings on a Tiger that developed
      a specific preference for the taste of bear-meat, (just as leopards do for dogs),
      & he, just like Davy Crockett – habitually hunted/killed big-as brown bears – for food.

      Reports by circus beast-masters who had both big-cats & bears performing
      ( bears usually doing the humiliating clown routines ) also stated that bears
      naturally fear even the smell of big-cats, & will generally avoid conflict.

      U.S. circus trainers always preferred wild-caught animals due to hand reared
      beasts losing their natural fear of humans, due to over-familiarity, & thus
      becoming more dangerous, if they reverted to their wild killer-instincts.

      Circus beast-masters also tend to confirm the long-reported historical
      attributes accorded to lions vs tigers, with the stripey guys being more
      cunning, ‘treacherous/sneaky’ & vicious – without warning..

      Reply
      1. David

        Tigers are ambush hunters, meaning they take their prey by surprise. I could beat Floyd Mayweather in a fight as long as I sucker punch him (or at least I have a chance), but in a straight up fight, yea Mayweather destroys me every single time. My point being hunting and a face to face encounter can produce different results.

        Reply
        1. Eric

          This is the one point that no one has considered. Unless this Russian study mentioned previously takes into account the circumstances of these tiger/bear encounters, its findings are moot. Bears are omnivorous scavengers. Tigers are carnivorous hunters. Of course bears won’t seek out encounters with most animals unless it’s starving, at which point it won’t be physically fit enough to take on a Tiger. Tigers on the other hand do hunt and would force an encounter, and would wait until it had the advantage.

          Reply
  6. evil_cheese_king

    Guys,

    This is a fight I would pay to see.

    I wouldn’t want either animal to be badly harmed but this question needs to be answered. It would be the USA v Russia!!!

    For the records a fully grown adult male Siberian Tiger is 11′ long (over 3m). The info stated above is an average between a male & female tiger.

    http://www.animalfactguide.com/animal-facts/siberian-tiger/

    Reply
    1. Nathan

      The tail doesn’t count when factoring a Tigers’ length, it’s nose to ass. A 13 foot long tiger would stand 15 ft tall, shit even ligers aren’t that big.
      Tigers would have an edge on bears their own size or smaller, but don’t stand a chance against bears that outweigh them by almost double.

      Reply
  7. JJB1098

    A friend of mine worked with Gunther Gebel-Williams (famed big cat trainer of Ringling Brothers circus) for 9 years. He told me about numerous occasions when Gunther got smacked by cats and showed me hundreds of pics of both large male lions and Bengal and Siberian Tigers. All 3 are majestic animals. One thing he told me that I and most others didn’t realize is that like lions, Tigers too fought , when defending territory’s. He also told me that seasoned large male Tigers would not go after a male lions neck but it’s head. But he also told me that confrontations in the wild were extremely rare . But he stressed that either one could kill a human with 1 swap of a paw. Each hunt in different habitats and both have become well adapted to their habitats. My friend stressed that when training/working with them he was always more careful around the Siberean Tigers because they had incredible speed on a dead run from sitting . He said most of the cats he worked with were acquired at a young age and worked with for a long time. He said for the most part they tolerated each other. He showed me pictures of a full grown male lion and full grown male Siberian Tiger that were raised together and were all but inseperateable. He told me that the likely hood of these 2 big cats meeting in the wild wasn’t common, but usually didn’t result in fights to the death but more conceding . or keeping a safe distance. He said a Tiger would more likely keep wife berth because he couldn’t afford injury and lions and tigers weren’t on each other’s menu of choice. I don’t care which would do what. I like both cats and wouldn’t want to meet either in any situation. Lol. I just wish that people would be this enthusiastic about protecting these animals from poachers and “GAME HUNTERS”

    Reply
  8. Anonymous

    Overall, the Siberian Tiger got greater power.
    Now don’t get me wrong. Power doesn’t mean just muscular strength. The Grizzly bear may have greater strength, but Siberian tiger is too cunning for the bear.
    And combined with strength, agility, speed, ferocity and WAY quickerquicker reflexes, the tiger has the upper hand.
    If Bengal tigers can kill elephants (not regularly) Siberian tigers surely can kill bears.

    Reply
    1. Ron

      Bengals don’t kill elephant unless they’re half dead already

      Reply
  9. David

    You very much so misrepresent the weight of grizzly bears. You say they can weigh 340 kilograms (749.572 lbs) when in reality they average between 100 and 635 kilograms (220 to 1400 lbs), that’s average not biggest. Mean while, you used 305 kilograms (672 lbs) for the Siberian tiger, which isn’t an average but more of an extreme. So there’s actually a huge difference in size. So even using your rather large Siberian tiger proportions, the grizzly bear is still likely to have a couple hundred or more pounds on the tiger.

    Also, unlike brown bears, asiatic brown bears, and even polar bears, grizzly bears can be much, much more aggressive. When polar bears encounter grizzlies, despite being slightly larger, they typically turn and run. Asiatic bears tend to avoid confrontation with tigers, and when they do are usually the ones that turn and run. My point here being that comparing Asiatic bears who encounter tigers to what may happen if a grizzly faced a tiger completely ignores the animals temperament. And one only needs to look at (though it’s a deplorable practice) dog fighting, specifically with pit bulls to see how much temperament matters.

    Reply
  10. Beatlearl

    You did a lot of I thinking and guessing instead of putting up facts as to which one would actually win.

    Reply
    1. David

      Grizzlies and Siberian tigers don’t live in the same areas, they don’t encountered each other in the wild, and that is a fact. And because of that fact all that any one can do (unless you own a Siberian tiger and a grizzly bear) is speculate (although, I did provide facts to support my line of speculations).

      Reply
      1. David

        Though, in actuality you did not (unless you consider assigning arbitrary numbers to made up stats facts).

        Reply
  11. David

    “A grizzly can kill a wolf or mountain lion with one swipe of its paw.

    The big hump on the grizzlies back is a mass of muscle giving the brown bear the strongest front limbs of any animal in the world.”
    http://www.animalfactsencyclopedia.com/Grizzly-bear-facts.html

    So much for your “facts” claiming that both the Siberian and grizzly paw strikes have equal strength.

    Reply
  12. James W.

    David,
    Yeah, your link is to a site for kids,
    with a bunch of made up assumptions,
    just – masquerading – as “facts”..

    Bears have a greater % of body fat & a large gut – to process their mainly garbage diet..
    Big cats are true carnivores & have a majority body weight of lean muscle mass – just for killing..

    Reply
  13. Steve J.

    I am not certain who would win, but there is one fact that has been lightly touched on and even mostly omitted here. The grizzly, or brown bear, is second only to a Timberwolf in stamina. A bear has the energy to fight for between two and three straight days. While the Siberian tiger can be very ferocious for a short time, they eat on average two times a week.
    Grizzlies have both chased and been chased by packs open moves for more than two days at a time. The tiger wouldn’t last a couple of hours. Based on all of this so called and real facts presented here and by National Geographic and other such places, the Siberian tiger would half to kill the grizzly quickly. Even those who believe the tiger would win, don’t believe it could happen quickly. Again, I am not an expert nor do I claim to be.

    Reply
  14. Pbro

    Grizzly bears have far more force and are more intelligent than Siberian Tigers. Grizzlies can turn over cars with ease and break the back of 1,000lb+ Caribou and Bison with a single swipe. All bear species have better navigational memory than humans, and are widely considered to be the most intelligent non-human mammals in North America (smarter than both Wolves and dogs, and the average IQ of 3-4 year old humans). While you are correct about Siberian Tigers regularly eating brown bears, these meals are always the result of ambush attacks that are executed by leaping from trees on top of an unsuspecting bear and quickly applying a neck bite. This makes sense: Tigers are ambush predators. In a 1v1 fight on the ground though, a Grizzly would almost certainly overpower any big cat species.

    Also you didn’t have a “Dexterity” category. This is one of the main advantages that a Grizzly has when hunting large game, by wrapping it’s arms around its prey (usually the horns) before completely overpowering them and usually breaking their back and/or neck.

    Conclusion: The only way a Siberian Tiger can kill a Grizzly is with a direct and powerful neck bite. This is improbable in the non-ambush scenario of direct combat. Meanwhile, a Grizzly can paralyze (and subsequently kill) a Siberian Tiger with a single direct contact paw swipe or a multi-second bear hug. Considering these facts, a Grizzly Bear victory is the only reasonable outcome.

    Reply
  15. James W.

    Pbro,
    ’bout your “conclusion”?
    Nah, doubt it..

    While the bear will take opportunity to chomp down on most any tasty item it can get hold of,
    it is in a lesser category – as a natural-born killer – than the big cat..

    Your assumption of bear superiority in brain/muscle power is unfounded.. as it is for “dexterity”..
    A “bear victory” is possible, of course, if it massively over-matches a weak/lame/inexperienced tiger opponent,
    – but a wild Siberian tiger who knows bears – really holds the winning cards..
    ..it can choose to attack, or evade the bear – as it wishes, while the fat, lumbering bruin cannot..

    A real beastly prime-killer Russian tiger, who has developed a learned preference for bear-meat ( as some are scientifically noted to do) will utterly shock an American grizzly.. ( since he’s only accustomed to contending with anything near as big – tooth & claw-wise – being his own kind, not a tiger ).

    & the well-researched ruthless cunning sneakiness of a tiger attack, backed by its keen-eyed athletic coordination utilizing remarkably vicious quickness/brute striking power, plus far more predator-potent, meat-hook sharp claw control, via extensible -spread grapple- grasp & rapidly- expertly applied throat-ripping/spine-crippling specialist-killer power-bite.. will cause the bear to freak in pain & fear, & try in vain to escape..

    & so yeah, sure – the reasonable, fact-based “conclusion”?
    The grizzly is toast..

    Reply
    1. Logan W

      Your first paragraph suggests that a bear will likely attack with it’s mouth, while known instances of conflicts with predators show that it is a secondary attack.

      Bears are also known to have extreme levels of stamina, lasting for days. Tigers are not known for such extreme stamina.

      Mountain lions regularly stand 3 feet at the shoulder, 8 feet in length, and weigh in around 200 pounds. Unless a bear is likely to notice girth and density, they regularly share terrain with predators the size of tigers, not to mention the size and lethal threat of an average moose.

      What is your basis for a very large brown bear “to freak in pain & fear, & try in vain to escape..?” Your argument seemed based on a particular tiger “who has developed a learned preference for bear-meat ( as some are scientifically noted to do),” and not an average tiger. Your argument also seemed to ignore a bear having or doing anything other than being a bear and both trying and failing to escape.

      Bears are known to have very thick skin and fat, extreme weight, and absurd muscle and bone density. Average Grizzlies are known to commonly crush spinal columns and other bones of animals far larger with more dense bones than tigers. A bear must pose some sort of threat, yes?

      Reply
  16. Edward corona

    Well I just saw a video a fight between a YOUNG Grizzly and a tiger and I just saw the bear fights back and wins the battle

    Reply
  17. Frank

    You got your weights and measures wrong. Both are strong and vicious animals, I don’t think a fight between two creatures who are that deadly would ever be a foregone conclusion, but generally the fight will go to the larger animal. Which would be an adult grizzly bear. Your favorite zoo animal fantasies notwithstanding.

    Reply
  18. Nathan

    Imagine if everyone in this chat room was placed in a suit of armor, given a broad sword, and made to stand in an arena with a caged male Siberian Tiger weighing 600lbs, and a caged male Grizzly weighing 1200 lbs. Then one by one we were each told we needed to choose one of the animals as an opponent in a fight to the death. I would like to see how many tiger fanboys in that sort of situation would be stupid enough to pick the Grizzly.

    Reply
    1. Michael

      I concur maybe some tiger peeps keep thinking about little sun bears here? Anything else doesn’t make sense.

      Reply
    2. Mikael

      In a suit of armor? Of course I’d pick to fight the tiger. But without armor, I’d pick the Grizzly every time.

      But that’s all completely irrelevant, since humans with our tools are always the apex predator.

      Reply
    3. James W.

      Hah, back in the day,
      when Spain ruled California ( think ‘Zorro’),
      Spanish ‘sporting gentlemen’ would ride out
      on grizzly bear hunts – & kill them with their rapier swords..
      So, grizzly bears became extinct in California.
      & no suit of armour needed, either..

      But those guys would have to be a bit more wary of hunting
      a cunning, quick leaping, sharp clawed tiger – in that manner, to be sure..

      Fact is, native Americans feared attack by the mountain lion more so
      than by the grizzly & knew that that a big native cat could whip the bear too..

      Reply
        1. James W.

          AKA/Turkey..
          Guess what kid..

          Those indigenous ‘braves’ lived the life,
          & knew the facts.. by actual experience..

          But you dont.. & you foolishly imagine your childish “opinion”
          actually has some validity.. due to fanboy fantasies.. L.O.L…

          Look it up kid.. & find out.. that you’re wrong.. again..

          Same with your stupidity about ‘paw swipes’ & ‘sword swing’..
          The Spanish rapier kills by being plunged in deeply, point first..

          Reply
          1. Aka/Tony

            SWORD SWiNG?! Have you lost it James? A 100 pound cougar stands no chance against a 600 pound bear. Much less a 1,200 pound bear.

          2. James W.

            AKA/Puny..
            Cease the dumb-as act, kid..

            Do the research instead, huh..
            & you’ll see the historical record for yourself..

            & while mountain lions are generally circumspect
            about getting into fights with other predators..
            ( except ‘tom cats’ scrapping with each other, of course).
            ..when a real ornery cat decides to go ballistic, they’ve
            been known/recorded to kill any & all enemies,
            from wolverine, wolf, bear, alligator, eagle,
            & yes boy, even your fave, the jaguar – too..

            So get that STRAIGHT kid..

          3. Aka/Tony

            Jaguars are larger, stronger, have bigger bite force, faster and are more intelligent. Why, why, why and why do you have to be such a lion fanboy? I know why you say this: The cougars other name, mountain lion, has lion in it, and so you are officially a fanboy. You are such an idiot, James.

          4. Aka/Tony

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ89WjaRaf0 A jaguar tolerates no cougar. You saw this jaguar not even go ballistic, and easily chase off the scaredy cat cougar. That HUGE cougar barely got away. That cougar was bigger than the female! And he still ended up thinking, “oh my god, this thing is way stronger than me and I’m only slightly bigger. I do note that was a small female, too.

          5. James W.

            AKA/Tinny..
            Hilarious!
            Again with the entertainment TV show..

            You really have no idea, do you kid..
            Cougar/m-lion/Puma, are not of the Panthera family..
            ..but they have been more successful than jaguars..

            & while jaguars are directly related to lions, they are
            a puny version.. just as you are tiny & underdeveloped, too L.O.L…

          6. Aka/Tony

            James… you must understand… jaguars and lions are not almost the same. They are very different. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hCshhmAl5E Btw, watch that.Jaguars are not a puny version of lions. If they were the same size, like giant jaguars were, they would easily, and I mean EASILY beat a lion or tiger. A jaguar would beat any cougar, you saw the video. James, you’re an asshole.

          7. Aka/Tony

            ..when a real ornery cat decides to go ballistic, they’ve
            been known/recorded to kill any & all enemies,
            from wolverine, wolf, bear, alligator, eagle,
            & yes boy, even your fave, the jaguar – too..

            Any enemy, eh? How bout’ the lion? Yeah, I got you good James.

          8. James W.

            AKA/Ice-hole…
            Dumb-as child..
            You really have no idea.. at all..

            The puma has survived in the Americas..
            for far longer, & in a wider habitat range – than jags..

            & so, ‘stupid boy’, how is you don’t get that lions are
            a more recent descendant of the ‘panthera’ line,
            & are also most closely related to jags.. which are puny..
            in comparison, as you are to me, you foolish puppy..

            FYI tardo-kid, its on record, a hunter shot a large puma,
            which was weighed, post gutting, & yet scaled 276 pounds,
            so it was around 300 lbs alive, & thus larger than most jaguars..

          9. Aka/Tony

            James, if you were a hunter, would you target pumas or jaguars? Jaguars would easily beta a puma, you saw the video. Jaguars on average are larger than cougars. James, you just like cougars because they have ‘lion’ in their name. You’re the biggest lion fanboy on earth. Admit it, imbecile.

          10. James W.

            aka/imbecile..
            Tiny, the puma is not a panthera ‘big cat’..
            ..the jaguar is a panthera, but is not a ‘big cat’..
            ..compared to the really big cats, lion & tiger..

            Your moronic claims – that staged TV entertainment clips..
            forms any kind of valid evidence is yet more ‘stupid boy’ stuff..

            Pumas & panthera leo are not sympatric, but puma & jaguar are..
            for sure, only panthera leo is the true ‘lion’ & no matter how many
            names are applied to the puma, it will never be ‘King of Beasts’..

            But nor will the jaguar either, although both jag & puma overlap
            in size & territory range, with a big tom puma quite capable of
            dominating lesser jags, & both cats are on the record as bear-killers..

            Stop your childish crap, kid – try to learn some actual facts – instead
            of presenting yourself so unrelentingly – as a fatuous fanboy fool..

          11. Aka/Tony

            You act as if jaguars are weak, little pussy’s. But cougars are, compared to them.

            Stamina: Jaguars can run and fight for longer than cougars.

            Speed: Jaguars are generally a tad faster than cougars. Cougars top speed is 50 mph, jaguar is 65 mph. Cougars are usually 45-50 mph. Jaguars average a solid 50 mph.

            Weapons: Cougars weapons are smaller than jaguars. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pahjpKWtKTc Scroll to 1:19 and it will show the chart. Jaguars have longer claws than lions and cougars. In fact, they have the longest claws only to the tiger. Jaguar clearly has the upper hand over cougars. they are bigger, badder, faster, stronger with better weapons. End of debate. I know you, James. You’re just supporting the cougar because it’s called mountain lion. It has lion in it’s name, and you’re the biggest lion fanboy on the face of the planet.

          12. James W.

            AKA/Turkey..
            Oh no.. jeeze, kid..

            You have totally blown whatever tiny shred of credibilty..
            ..you still had.. (not much )..
            ..since both those linked vids – are utterly unscientific trash..
            ..they’re simply exemplars of fanboy crap – at its worst..
            & you prove yourself a total dumb-as, by presenting them here..

            “Longer claws than lions…” – its so pathetic kid..
            Show a scientifically validated example of a 650+
            pound wild jaguar specimen’s claws..
            You can’t, because they don’t exist.. unlike the lion..
            ( & FYI, the Nairobi museum has a 690lb wild lion specimen)..

            But get back to the thread topic kid, rather than..
            ..looking so foolish – over your childish jag adoration..

          13. Aka/Tony

            Unscientific, eh? Then what is scientific to you, James? A bunch of comments? That seems about right. You’re just an insane idiot, James. Saying bears are fat little pussy’s. Saying nothing can beat a lion. Not a hippo, not a rhino, not even an elephant. You are the biggest lion fanboy on the face of the planet. Jaguars would easily best a cougar, you saw the link. You’re only supporting the puma because it has the word ‘lion’ in it. The chart says jaguar claws are bigger than lions claws. Lions are not the best at everything in the big cats. In fact, they’re the best at only one thing: Sitting around, and being dumbasses. Just like you. Also, jaguars do have over 3 times the lions bite force. When was theist time you saw a lion crack a skull with ease? Jaguars do that to caiman. Lions, certainly could not.

          14. James W.

            AKA/Tinny..
            Trash aint science.. kid..
            How is it you can’t get that?
            &,
            I’d suggest you reality check the..
            very graphic youtube clip of..
            lions loudly crunching through the skull..
            of a wildebeest kill, to devour the brain..
            ..but you’re too young.. L.O.L…

            FYI kid, big territorial tom cougars kill
            other rival cougars – with skull-brain bites..

          15. Aka/Tony

            Cougars do not bite through skills. Even you’re precious lion has a higher bite force than them. Jaguar will easily beat a cougar. Cougars never take them on. They’re to scared they will get they’re asses kicked, like lions would to Jaguars.

          16. James W.

            AKA/Crack baby..
            Do a fact check kid..
            Cougars kill rivals with skull bites..

            Jaguars can & do take bears..
            ..but a pride boss lion would treat a jag..
            ..to the same vicious beat down – that he routinely
            deals out to leopards, who must run, or die..

            Same as tigers who catch a leopard in their territory..
            & so the jag would also be whipped, its just out-matched..

            The biggest pathera boys naturally call the shots versus their
            smaller cousins, & can/will do the beat down – on brown bears too..
            The

          17. Aka/Tony

            You’re point? Lions and tigers are much larger than jaguars. Yet a jaguar killed a lion in a zoo, as shown in one of my videos. You’re a feline/lion fanboy, James. Admit it. You deny tigers are bigger than lions but you’re own site says tigers are, indeed, bigger. You just have no idea, do you James.

          18. James W.

            AKA/Tiny..
            ..still believing bullshit, huh kid..
            that bogus youtube account was debunked..

            & FYI, I am solely interested in the facts..
            whereas for you, fantasy-faves come first,
            & reality cannot sway your childish ‘opinion’..

            Grow up, & get real, or get lost, ‘ you stupid boy’..

          19. Aka/Tony

            If you were interested in the facts, you would be listening to me. But you refuse, you hang on to you’re precious lion, by a thread.

          20. James W.

            AKA/Fact-blind..
            Too funny.. & from a spoilt child who still hangs..
            ..out of his momma.. with their umbilical cord intact..

            Boss lions get to be boss – on their merits kid, same as
            Amur tigers who have to contend with bears, & do, no doubt..

            But.. to make the grade as pride boss is a far tougher deal..
            ..so the boss lion has to PROVE he IS far tougher.. than any other..
            ..tough-as male lions, & per se – stripey, let alone fat-as, brownie..
            & any BIG prey he is called upon to ‘man-up’ to, by his bitches, as well..

          21. Aka/Tony

            Oh, are you too cool to hang out with you’re mom? I’m 12 now, and I still hang out with my family. You, can’t even post a link correctly half the time.

    4. Aka/Tony

      Nah, I’d rather be with bear. Oe swing with you’re sword and and that bear is gonna have second thoughts on attacking you. Bears back down much more than tigers do. If there’s a fight fight going on, the tiger is gonna fight to the death while the bear will be running away, only to be outrunned by the tiger. It’s dead meat. A hungry Siberian tiger on the prowl will go for a grizzly bear at every opportunity.

      Reply
  19. frank sinatra

    I have actually read a few accounts of male tigers vs. big male brown bears in russia and the outcome is uncertain. Often the tiger wins, but this all depends on the size of the combatants and their dispositions. The best account I ever read, which I wish I retained, was of two large males of each species. A serious brawl, with the tiger being pretty much the attacker. The bear was on the defensive thoughout but he eventually won the fight, stunning the tiger with a paw swipe, and then killing the tiger. The writer said the tiger was very big but the male bear was huge. The tiger actually saw and immediatley approached the bear, looking for a brawl. He sure got it. Generally I give the nod to the tiger in such fights, as did this author, who seemed very knowledgeble; he was russian, but a huge male brown bear is probably too much for even a big tiger. Male bears in alaska often weigh over half a ton. I assume this russian brown bear was approaching 900 lbs, perhaps more. 400 or 500 lbs is too much of a weight differential for even giant tigers. And bears are not what they appear: they are very fast and quick, belying their bulk, and as somebody here said, they have incredible stamina. For sheer onslaught and ferocity, nothing approaches the tiger, but in this one confrontation, the author saw the tiger as the attacker, but as the fight went on, he attacked and attacked, without success, and eventually he got hit with an enormous swipe in the head and that was basically it. I think he must have been losing his stamina, but the giant bear, who was defensive, had the better stamina.

    Reply
  20. Michael

    To compare a tiger to a grizzly is so face palm. I like tigers. Tigers are aggressive, smart , fast, and against a north American grizzly pretty much dead!! The only successful attacks on Russian brown bears have been younger adults of equal or simaler size. Even then its a toss up. Against fully grown brown bears as someone pointed out one swipe dazzes the tiger. And that is a brown bear. The north American grizz is so much more aggressive, it would have been over much sooner. The stanima, temperament. And far supior strength easy win for the grizzly here. Tigers are usually attacking smaller sun bears, not much common sense attacking brown bears. Hopefully they have the sense not to attack and die with grizzly.

    Reply
  21. Leo

    The only way any tiger could ever kill a grizzly or other large species bear is if it could first acquire, and then learn to fire, an 88mm bazooka!

    It’s funny how most of the tiger supporters here talk like they’re Steve Irwin or somebody, yet almost all of them are talking out of their ass, showing no knowledge whatsoever of the actual species in question.

    Bears are much faster than most people here realize, they’re misleadingly dextrous, they have no vulnerabilities that a tiger could take advantage of, and they’re highly intelligent as well. They are so smart, in fact, that they’ve even been known to break into houses and steal canned food from the cupboards, later busting the cans open on large rocks outside. This happened to the house next door to mine. How many tigers do you know that can read the label on a can of beans?

    When it comes to tigers vs. bears, bears win 99.9% of the time, only losing if they are cubs, or are old, sick, and weak individuals. Case closed!

    LB

    Reply
  22. James W.

    Yeah, so I’m guessing that the hilarious bruin fan-boys,
    -who really rate the bloated dumpster diver, are fat-as too..

    Try & be serious, since when has being a flabby lump of lard
    been a major advantage, in a fight against an athletically muscled killer?

    As for Nathan, fighting grizzlies with swords is not a fantasy, back in
    the day, in Spanish California, it was considered a sport – to hunt bears
    with a rapier, & back east, Davy Crockett hunted grizzly bears for their
    meat & skins with a muzzle-loading rifle & a Bowie knife.

    You bear fans oughta do a bit of proper research, & rely less on fantasy..

    Reply
  23. Håkon

    A datapoint I found by accident (or rather, I found this page looking for more info after I found the datapoint).

    From “The Oregon trail”, Federal Writers’ Project, 1939. In paranthesis on Nebraska, p. 62.
    “The grizzly is one of the most ferocious and dangerous animals in the
    world as some San Francisco gamblers proved long ago when they
    staged a fight between a grizzly and a tiger; the tiger was dead in a few seconds.”

    Now, they say “tiger”, and it could possibly be any type of tiger, but I’m guessing it’s not likely a Siberian tiger.

    Second, the tiger would have to have been transported from Asia to SF or brought up in captivity, in any case it would not have been as fit as a natural tiger. Whereas the grizzly would likely have been close to full vigor.

    Reply
    1. James W.

      Pure fiction there – without a fact check H…

      If if gives a gate for the event, you can check the local newspaper archive
      for eyewitness reports..
      These ‘old timey’ bouts were hyped up as a spectacle for attracting
      paying crowds & were reported
      much like human boxing matches were..

      I have read an historical/contemporary newspaper article of a C19th
      German woman who made her living touring with a troupe of lions,
      which she trained to take on Spanish fighting bulls
      – in arenas there, the betting money was big, & the locals trained up their bulls too,
      & no, the garbage-guts bears they tried – were no match for them.

      The lion had to avoid being gored by the bull’s horns & take the bull off its feet,
      rodeo style,- if it wanted to eat steak.. one expert lion killed 8 bulls in a row, but then
      word got around, & the locals wouldn’t bet against it.

      Reply
  24. Thejakeshow

    Consider these comparative facts:

    The Siberian tiger is an ambush predator. It’s typical strategy involves stalking smaller, easily overpowered prey. Then, using its massive size and impressive equipment (substantial claws and teeth), it holds the prey item, delivering a swift fatal bite, typically to the spine at the base of the skull. Siberian Tigers have been documented hunting large prey animals, but rarely do so at risk to themselves.

    The Grizzly Bear is a solitary omnivore who hunts opportunistically. It’s typical diet consists of a wide variety of plant matter and animal proteins ranging from fruits and nuts to insects and fish respectively. However in times of scarcity Grizzlies have proven themselves as successful pursuit predators, and have been documented taking down moose, elk, and even bison. The bear, to take down these large foes, commonly uses its long forearms to deliver crushing blows to the back or limbs of its prey, crippling it.

    Now, what do these brief descriptions illustrate? Consider these two animals as if they were separate classes in an RPG game. The tiger, as an ambush predator, is the ultimate calculated assassin. The bear on the other hand, is a heavy hitting tank, clad in fur armor. Through comparison, it is observable that each has the strengths that the other lacks. Through this inference, we can draw some conclusions. If a tiger assassin were to ambush a bear tank, as is its typical behavior, the assassin would more than likely win the day, using the strategy previously described. However, imagine a different scenario. If our striped assassin was stripped of its stealth (it’s key advantage) then our fur clad tank could likely survive an expected frontal assault, delivering a crushing blow to its more fragile opponent.

    So, what conclusion have we finally come to? Namely that the battle here discussed is a highly circumstantial one. While we could argue very vaguely about which is more bad ass, in truth there are scenarios where either could win out. If a grizzly is romping through the taiga foraging for acorns or flipping boulders for fat little moths, it’s not going to notice the tiger downwind, pouncing on its back. Conversely, if a tiger were left with no place to hide and the grizzly scores first blood, it’s hard t say that the tiger could recover.

    Anyways, that’s the best I’ve got for this debate, please tear me apart at your leisure.

    Reply
    1. jibanyan41

      so true. tigers also eat bears from black to polar. a polar bear is 13 feet, grizzly, 10, so a tiger will kick any type of bear’s butt of.

      Reply
  25. Anonymous

    I’ll explain to you guys the facts straight. Actually, if you study their fighting tactics more, you’ll realize that the Siberian Tiger has more chance of winning, even in a STRAIGHT FIGHT.
    We know that if the bear lashes out with its paws, then the tiger is done for.
    But the tiger got WAY quicker reflexes and intelligence enough to avoid that. And we know that tigers are cunning. Because of its agility and super-strong legs, it can suddenly stand up and make a powerful paw swipe, which we know is enough to break the bear’s neck. Tigers can dodge the bear’s hits quite easily.
    Tigers are expert in punching and boxing. It can also maneuver around easily and latch itself on the bear’s neck and one bite is enough for the tiger to have a good meal.

    Just think, it’s the mass of the bear against the mass AND agility of the tiger. Moreover, even if bears are smarter than tigers, the big cat is gonna be so quick that the bear doesn’t get a chance to analyze the situation.
    Siberian tigers aren’t as cunning as Bengal tigers, but a tiger is a tiger after all. Even Siberian Tiger can suddenly change its tactics while fighting.

    Therefore, the tiger has more chances of winning.
    I won’t say that the tiger has very high rates. In tiger vs lion, tiger has 80%, lion has it 20% but in Grizzly Bear vs Siberian Tiger, it’s not that high a difference, but all the same, tiger takes it more.
    Also, the mass difference isn’t that great.
    Siberian Tiger is around 308 kg while Grizzly Bear around 345 kg. THAT DOESN’T MEAN AN OVERWHELMING ADVANTAGE.
    Why is the tiger more agile is that it has more muscles. A tiger is built with 72.6% muscles. The bear is a bunch of fat. Thus a tiger is overall stronger.

    Reply
  26. James W.

    Anonymous, do a fact check..
    & you’ll see, your 80-20 tiger over lion ratio is the wrong way around..
    .. just check the subject at All Empires history forum, for an excellent literature review..

    Bears do even worse, being killed by mules & the like.. let alone prime lions..

    Reply
    1. Anonymous

      I have answered only after going through HEAPS of websites.
      There have been 1902 fights.
      Tiger won 1732.
      Lion won just 170.
      That mounts to 91% for tiger.
      Understand?

      It is a clear indication that a tiger has win rate even higher than 80%. Infact, 80% is a lower limit.

      Reply
      1. James W.

        Anonsense,

        Made up fanboy garbage, the favourite food of the grizzly bear!
        Dumpster divers are losers, & stripey boys get boss lion beatdowns.

        Reply
  27. StronkMan

    For this I will be comparing an average Bengal tiger to the average inland grizzly, which average 500 pounds and 600 pounds respectively. Fat won’t save the bear, the tiger has 3-4 inch long teeth, with a bite force of over 1000 psi, and 3 inch long claws. And unlike the bear, these are sharp wince they can be sheathed, the tiger has superior weapons. And despite the size difference, the bear won’t be significantly stronger, a lot of it’s weight are due to its fat, the tiger on the other hand is practically pure muscle. Bears are surprisingly fast, but that is when they are running in a straight line, that is not agility or reflexes, where the tiger excels. The tiger is very capable of boxing on its hind legs while maneuvering. However the bear has advantages of its own. It has higher stamina, as has been proven in the wild. The bear will likely have slightly more powerful paw swipes due to the location of its muscle mass, they have big shoulders, however these aren’t going to one shot the tiger like some have suggested. Despite how bear fat won’t save the bear like some people suggest, it will still somewhat help in this fight. Speaking of durability, the bear also has denser bones. I can see the tiger having the upper hand at first, but if the bear can survive the tiger’s initial onslaught, the better chances the bear will have due to superior MystaminaI think the tiger will win after an extremely close fight, it will come down to the individuals involved far more than what species they belong to. However grizzlies on the coast are larger than grizzlies inland, so a coastal grizzly will defeat a tiger.

    Reply
  28. JCola

    First of all Grizzlys are not even remotely the king of bears that honor goes to the Kodiac (BASICALLY A GRIZZLY ON STERIODS )An ex employee of mine used to go to Kodiac Island yearly to photograph them .A large Kogic Bear (1400 lbs ) can out run a racehorse in short spurts .Large adult Kodiacs are the size of Voltswagen Beatles and can easily break ANY cat in half with the swipe of its paw(6 INCH CLAWS ) If anyone has ever seen a large Kodiac in person in comparason to a Loin or TIGER they would realize the cat doesnt have a chance in HELL To get a true size perspective google Bart The Bear.

    Reply
    1. James W.

      Funny, Pepsi-Max,
      Why don’t you do a hormone comparison
      between fat-as dumpster-diving garbage-guts bear,
      & big cat, such as testosterone or adrenaline release?

      Bears will run from yappy pet dogs, or an angry housecat,
      a big cat will intimidate them – if they catch a whiff of his scent,
      just as circus clown bears are, when boss lion enters the big-top.

      & as for putting the ‘pedal to the metal’ when it comes to the crunch,
      Yogi the picnic thief will be on toast for the dedicated killer that is big cat..

      Reply
  29. Todd

    Well, that’s what tigers are for – to kill grizzly bears.

    Reply
  30. Ack

    Basically it’s a tank (Grizzly) vs. a Ferrari (Tiger). In a head to head battle the tank wins, every time.

    Reply
  31. Toby Norman

    The grizzly wins hands-down. By the way, animal trainers, hunters, and biologists agree that bears have primate-like intelligence while the cat family rate just below the wolf. Big cats can afford just a limited weight range to be successful hunters. A grizzly can pack-on the muscle and fat. There have been several tiger vs grizzly fights in captivity recorded. The grizzly won every time. Also, grizzly vs lion with same results; except once and only once has it been recorded that a lion killed a grizzly – and that was within a tight enclosure where the lion suddenly and unexpectedly grabbed the bear by the throat – an ambush. History proves the grizzly the better combatant over any big cat.

    Reply
  32. Billy

    I’m gonna vote team bear as well, simply because their larger mass is a huge advantage. As long as we are talking a fair fight, bear is gonna kick tigers ass every time.

    Reply
  33. James W.

    Billy,
    are you overweight from too much dumpster diving?

    Being a fat scavenger is no advantage in deadly close-combat..
    .. against a dedicated life-long professional killer..
    ..especially versus a killer..
    … who is clearly superior in evolutionary adaptation/weaponry for the role…

    As for Toby’s ursine fantasies.. he can check the youtube clip of a fat ol’ bear
    running uphill, & suddenly dropping dead on the spot – from a massive heart attack..
    ..its a disgusting spectacle..

    Anyhow, Toby is either ignorant of the actual literature on the subject,
    ( if so, see Ross Wind’s excellent citations – as linked ),
    or is simply a deliberately disingenuous bear-fan, now doing his trolling routine here..

    Reply
    1. Rick

      James I seriously hope ur trolling with all of these incorrect facts that you rattle off. You sound like my brother with aspergers who will tell you the “facts” about anything. What most tiger “fanboys” and indeed no one in this discussion, has touched on, is a cat’s bone structure is lightly built. They are engineered to be incredibly fast ambush hunters, and can’t sustain much damage. Their skin is thin and they have no fat to protect vital blood vessels and their abdominal wall. This isn’t comparing a human athlete to an obese human. The grizzly bear has huge amounts of thick muscle insulated by fat, tough, thick skin, and inches of dense fur. He has one of the greatest stamina levels on Earth being able to fight or run for days. Their bones are also very dense, robust, and can handle big hits when they fight each other for dominance and mating. Their neck is so thick it couldn’t be bitten into efficiently, the tiger would end up pinching a bunch of fur skin and fat. Whereas any damage to an area with major arteries will spell death for your tiger. Any major blow to his spine, rip. Also consider the bear’s foul temper and willingness to face his opponent. i don’t think anything short of a rhino or elephant could handle an adult male grizzly of even average size.

      Sources

      https://goo.gl/images/tA6U4s (Tiger skeleton)

      https://goo.gl/images/y8n97S (grizzly skeleton)

      Reply
      1. James W.

        Rickles,
        you ol’ comic,
        really you need to do a literature review of the science..

        Big cat bones are very dense, necessarily so because
        they do habitually tackle large, dangerous prey,
        & have such muscular, athletic bodies to support.

        Bears use their skeletal structure to support a massive
        gut, needed to convert mostly low-grade food into fat,
        for over-wintering, & being pig-like by comparison to the cat..

        Big cats, as highly evolved obligate predators, of course possess
        far superior quick-kill attributes than dirt-scratchin’ garbage-guts bears..

        Bear skin is shown to be easily torn by the primitive claws of
        their own kind. & would stand no chance against the independently
        operated precision meat hook/slicers of the tiger.. nor would fat
        offer any ‘protection’ – why bear fans image this, is beyond ludicrous..

        Do some basic research huh, Rickety..

        Reply
  34. Kevin G

    The upper weight limit for adult male grizzlies is 1700 lbs, while for adult male Siberian tigers is 800 lbs. The grizzly has dense muscle, fat, and skin around its neck and head. Plus, they are not slow. Watch a video of it swatting something. Unless the tiger ambushes the bear, and gets lucky, I don’t see how the tiger would emerge as the victor.

    Reply
  35. Don

    Seems everyone has their favorite…..
    I believe the “arena” would determine the victor. If it were a narrow venue such as a cage, then they clash face to face. This is a huge advantage for the bear as they use crushing blow as their primary weapon and a full on hit will crush and part of the tiger it hits. Before you say the tiger has powerful forelimbs, consider how they use them slashing and grappling attacks. This serves them well in an ambush attack but is inferior to the bears crushing blows face to face.
    In an open arena the tiger has a much better chance. Its agility and speed give it a better than fair chance of attacking a bear from behind. In this scenario the bear is in trouble. The tiger has the strength to hold on and deliver a fatal bite to the back of the neck Even if it take multiple attempts to sever the spinal column, the bear will find it hard to dislodge the tiger and pretty much be helpless.
    Both are vicious alpha predators with very different fighting styles and I can see either winning. Pretty much depends on which one gets their preferred encounter. I doubt the bear would “hunt” a tiger as it likes easier meals. As to the tiger, I can see a tiger hunting bears. But I doubt it would choose a face to face encounter. Would a tiger hunt grizzlies? I guess no (and yes my guess is as good as yours) due to Darwin. If the two did coexist and clashed, both combatants would likely receive mortal wounds. A bear may be able to initially survive, but the deep slashes inflicted by the tiger would be subject to secondary infection. Likewise a tiger with broken bones from a grizzly attack may not be able to hunt and starve to death. Stretch this out over centuries and you could see the more aggressive of both species dying earlier and being washing out of the genetic pool leaving only the ones smart enough to avoid each other to breed any carry on.
    If you truly can not see how either could win then you dont understand both species.

    Reply
  36. John

    Has anyone ever watched the Ali Foreman fight Foreman that big thick have beat Muhammad Ali but brains swiftness and Agility and deadly accuracy will always outsmart the bigger more menacing opponent

    Reply
  37. Toby Norman

    In every recorded fight between a tiger and a grizzly, the bear defeated the big cat. There are recorded events of grizzlies in Russia killing mature male tigers. There are no records of a mature male grizzly ever being killed by a tiger.

    Reply
    1. James W.

      Toby,
      I really doubt that, do cite the sources.
      & you’d actually need to do some fact checks.

      Wildlife studies in Siberia where tigers & brown bears
      co-exist – do not support your quite ludicrous claims.
      ( & a ‘Grizzly’ is a brown bear, in fact.)

      These field research findings show that bears are wary of tigers,
      & rightly so, since as an obligate carnivore the tiger will only eat
      other animals, ( inc’ bears) & will not grub in the dirt or dumpster as bears do.

      In fact, one such study showed a particular tiger under observation
      had developed a taste for bear meat, & habitually sought them out
      as a prey item of choice, & yes, including mature male bears.

      Check with the memoirs of circus beastmasters too, bears generally fear
      even the scent of big cats, as a natural response – & avoid them,
      unless habituated by contact usually determined by humans.

      Circus performances by bears generally include some humiliating clown-type
      routine, quite unlike the vividly athletic, often aggressively fearsome big cat acts.

      The historical record of accidental contact between bears & big cats does
      confirm the general physical superiority of big cats over bears, in combat,
      & – by a significant margin.

      You’d do well to watch the remarkable Tippi Hedren movie, ‘ROAR!’ to
      gain some insight into the reality of the situation, Toby.

      Reply
      1. Chris Long

        Cats are not considered cute, otherwise you’d better believe they’d be wearing tutus, hats, and riding bicycles.

        The bear’s stamina alone would lay waste to any tiger, anywhere. Tigers are stalkers. bears are not. Tigers stalk because they can pounce fast. but their prey has to be weak. A Siberian tiger who attacked and pounced on a grizzly would soon find out badly it bit off more than it could chew. The bear, after first absorbing everything the tiger could throw at it would then return the favor, over and over again. The tiger at tthat point will try to get away, but being too tired, is now lunch.

        No contest… Grizz wins with ease….

        Reply
    2. Vivek Mohan

      No…you don’t know the muscular system of cats
      Especially the tiger…go and study..
      Other -wise please visit lndian forest and learn the
      the unknown truth of tiger…..after we can talk.

      It is not an opnion but something i remind you.
      Some legacies lie in this beast…yes

      We have Some historical records on tiger
      unbelievable grown male Bengal tiger could kill
      a man from a flying beat over 12 feet.The important thing was ,it happened while an elephant ride.

      My final point will be, the full growned bangal tiger with 15 years old which is from forest nobody can win.
      Because… Some temples had been telling us the tiger god…
      Even in kung fu why tiger could get main form instead of other beasts like bear and the lion.

      Because, Nobody can change the real history .

      Reply
  38. nico

    actually the others are wrong because there is proof that tigers eat bears.

    Reply
  39. Anon

    Wow. People really think a tiger will beat a grizzly bear here? Even worse that so many think that.

    Go watch a video of two grizzlies fighting. They clinch each other and latch on to their opponent’s face and start trashing back and forth with far more power than a tiger is going to produce. And guess what? The bears withstand it for long periods of time.

    WHAT IN THE WORLD is a tiger possibly going to do to a grizzly bear???? Its teeth are no bigger, its claws smaller, and it lacks the slow twitch torque the bears produce their power from. I can’t even see a tiger significantly hurting a grizzly before it’s grabbed, brought to the ground, and fatally wounded from a combination of the crushing, thrashing bites and massive paw swipes.

    Bear wins via ripping the tiger’s face off with its jaws. That’s quite literally how the fight would go. You people need to go watch a grizzly fight video NOW.

    Reply
  40. Pierre

    Something I know is that all those animals are more intelligent than most of you here.

    Reply
  41. Peter

    Tigers are far sharper witted than bears & bears are omnivores, even the polar bear is not 100% carnivore people forget. The bear would have the edge for the killer blow hate to admit though tigers do kill larger prey than any bear people often forget so either has the means to kill the other. When both fighters are more than strong enough to kill the other getting the first attack is important and that goes to the tiger but the grizzly would be able to hold ground better. Do not underestimate how powerful the siberian tiger is though, while smaller than the largest bears it is still a big, solid beast. Actually the largest land carnivore is the siberian tiger, as said all bears are ominivores or the case of the panda even herbivores by choice now lol.

    So do consider ferocity, which is a trait higher for obligate carnivores than hypercarnivores as well but typically most people weigh size more than other factors when it comes to fights so not surprised most chose the bear, although it’s almost 60-40 so not a massive divide. & grizzly bears are brown bears so it is comparable if tigers are known to kill Russian brown bears, if anything Siberia is a harsher climate so would they not be even deadlier than the grizzly cousins?

    Reply
  42. Swapnil

    LOL I’m surprised James didn’t showed up in this thread, showering peoples with his ridiculously stupid comments.

    Anyways as for the debate, I will choose the bear, I’m a tiger fan but Grizzly bear stands a better chance. One lethal blow from Grizzly is enough to put Tiger out of action.

    Reply
    1. James W.

      Swampnali,
      too funny, you haven’t even read the thread..
      For I have indeed – previously posted – in this thread.

      The Tiger naturally preys on bear, as has been pointed out,
      & will also seek to suppress other rivals for hunting territory,
      – such as wolves & leopards..

      Since the tiger is very close morphology-wise to its
      cousin, the lion, & even though it is less inclined to be
      so utterly bloody-minded, it still shares the far superior
      recent evolutionary killer attributes of a big cat, so yeah,
      the tiger stomps all over the fat-as garbage-guts grizzly,
      – at will..

      Reply
  43. Swapnil

    James I know, I would be wasting my time explaining you everything. You will ignore everything, just like you did with Rob, but still, the tiger cannot, would not, will not and never win this fight. Although it can put up a good fight with him, more than a lion could do.

    Just think more logically man, the odds are against the tiger. Bear is far superior in terms of strength, power and size it could outmatch any big cat.

    Reply
  44. James W.

    Swampy,
    Sadly, it seems you choose to remain an ignoramus..
    Physiology & zoology-wise big cats are far more advanced killers,
    they are in fact, an exemplar of the dedicated evolutionary carnivore,
    & by comparison – a bear is a fat-as stumble-bum.. just like rob..

    That you also quote rob, shows you that you too *****nil,
    are very likely nought, but a troll..

    If you are not, prove it..
    Its quite simple – read the data in the link recently provided by Trav,
    in the ‘lion versus bear ‘ thread,
    & come back educated – on the reality of the matter..

    Reply
  45. Swapnil

    -_-|| James man what are you saying?

    I agree the big cats are more athletically advanced, I also agree the tiger have fair chances of winning, but the Grizzly bear is simply a monster, I can bet ya 8/10 the bear will win. The bear is just too huge for any big cat, pound for pound the big cats are stronger and more talented fighters. But its not a pound for pound forum, the bear will simply dispatch any big cat with a single stroke of it’s paw.

    Reply
  46. James W.

    Swampy,
    You simply fail to understand..
    ~60% of big cat weight is skeletal muscle..
    & that muscle is very powerful, enabling feats of strength,
    such as sprinting/leaping/striking/biting far in excess of what bears can do..

    Bears carry a significant % of mass as fat, which is useless in a fight,
    & add the complex guts – required to digest all the garbage they eat..

    Your infantile “pound-for-pound” idea does not apply..

    Check the real historical records as have been linked,
    in reality, bears usually lose to the big cats.. as they must..
    ..given the clearly apparent capabilities endowed by morphology.

    Reply
  47. Swapnil

    Hmps.. thanks a lot James ^_^. I thought the bear will win because he’s massive, so he would be stronger etc. I was wrong…

    Thanks for opening my eyes, and make me realize how wrong I was.

    Reply
    1. James W.

      Ok, S-nil.
      There are youtube videos of tiger predation on massive cattle beasts..

      One shows a tiger literally KO an Asian buffalo with a neck snap, within a herd..
      & then cunningly bluff its angry companions – no bear could manage that guile..

      Another shows a tiger wresting down, by main force, a huge bull-necked gaur..
      The grizzly ( brown) bear does not possess the applied skills to do either task..
      It is an amateur killer, & should a determined tiger choose to specialize on bears..
      – due to developing a liking for the taste of bear meat.. the bear is done for..
      ( & there is a well documented case of exactly this happening – in Russia).

      Reply
    1. James W.

      Aka/T..
      Finally, you appear to show some realization..
      Hopefully, this is due to a proper appraisal of the evidence,
      & not simply due to being a purblind tiger fanboy showing ‘likes’ – for his ‘fave’..

      Reply
  48. Tony/Aka

    Aww… poor little James hasn’t grown out of his little kiddy lion beats everything. The only reason you think this is the only time I’m right, is because you are always wrong. You think lion would dominate every animal on the face of the planet… this, truly is depressing. And by the way, tiger fanboy! Boy, you need some milk! At least I said a polar bear would win against Siberian tiger. You said lion would beat polar bear! Tiger easily beats lion.

    Reply
  49. James W.

    Aka/T..
    Wrong again, & seemingly dumb-as too.. just like like rob..

    Try & grasp the reality.. since your child’s imagination – simply put – does not cut it..

    Unlike like the boss lion, who’d carve a fat-as bear’s heart out..
    ..& eat it with relish.. or maybe katsup.. if that was his ‘fave’..

    I have to quote ‘Captain Mainwaring’ here : “You stupid boy!”

    Reply
  50. Aka/Tony

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! Man, i’ll tell you what: If a lion an beat a polar bear, than Kevin Durant is my mom. Stupid boy. I love it! Polar bear is three times larger than lion (lol the lions dead). Yeah, talk trash to me all day.

    Reply
  51. James W.

    Aka/T..
    Did you mis-spell your name?
    Is it really ‘T-for- Turkey’ – sure seems like it.. & yeah,
    ‘Stupid is – as stupid does.. as it applies to you..

    Check the actual evidence.. not only do wild lions face down & kill..
    .. on a regular basis – far tougher creatures than ice bears..
    ..but when they both fought in captivity, the lions usually win..
    This is fact..

    Reply
  52. Aka/Tony

    No, ghats not a fact. Thats shit. Ice bears are far stronger, bigger, fatter, (to keep the lions teeth and claws from doing anything but sort of hurt it) have more stamina, smarter, and with far more powerful deadly paw swipes

    Reply
    1. James W.

      Aka/Troll..
      Too funny.. do you really imagine that bulk bear-fat is some kind of armour?
      & will “keep the lion’s teeth & claws from doing anything but sort of hurt it.”
      That’s either stupidity or trolling.. but utter bear-grade garbage, anyhow you cut it..

      Fat on bears is there to enable them to lie about semi-paralytic, lazing in a den, over winter..
      ..it is certainly nothing but a severe penalty for combating a lion dedicated to carve ups..

      Fat is readily cut & bleeds out fast, & provides a poor attachment for skin, which is why
      bear skin is torn off in huge patches so easily, even by blunt bear claws, during their scuffles,
      whereas lion teeth & claw attack will hack straight through, & flense it out, like it was butter fat..

      Reply
    1. James W.

      Aka/T,
      You really are developing into a troll..
      Bears grapple with wrestle each other.. they don’t strike paw blows..
      They only “swipe” fish from streams, & “swipe”garbage from dumpsters..

      Big cats however – can & do deliver massive sharp-clawed blows – via all four paws..
      ‘Roundhouse’ strikes from their front limbs, & guts-ripping rear leg kicks..

      Check the video of the tiger knocking out the water buffalo..
      & the video of lions landing super-quick hard-striking blows on crocodiles..

      Bears are too fat, slow, poorly armed & amateurish as killers – to combat an adept big cat,
      when it is skilled & intent on killing, & then eating – bear meat..
      This is a natural fact.. & is clearly shown by the actual evidence of conflict between them..

      Reply
  53. James W.

    Aka/Troll,
    It is a typical ‘stupid boy’ response to claim baldly – “No that’s not a fact.”

    You really have to cite/link validated data sets to verify your view..
    ..that is, if you wan’t to be taken seriously, rather than a rob-clone troll..

    Only trouble is, you can’t – since, as the irrefutable facts clearly show..
    ..as primary predators, the biggest cats are dominant over bears of all kinds..

    Reply
      1. James W.

        Sorry,
        wrong address: try this: https:www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOejXltB41Q

        Reply
  54. Aka/Tony

    Are you kidding me? A black bear cub vs 12 tigers? Black bears sometimes dominate tigers. The other video was unavailable, so you will have to do better than that. The other thing wasn’t even a video. It was a bunch of typed stuff. Here you go :https://www.google.com/search?q=polar+bear+kills+lion&safe=active&hl=en&site=webhp&tbm=isch&imgil=SndvDEIbiH_uHM%253A%253B2hFaaijAvsQXfM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fboards.straightdope.com%25252Fsdmb%25252Fshowthread.php%25253Ft%2525253D661341&source=iu&pf=m&fir=SndvDEIbiH_uHM%253A%252C2hFaaijAvsQXfM%252C_&usg=__2YeRSA2v_dgT5tlGYGz6Roir4gY%3D&biw=1404&bih=816&ved=0ahUKEwj17f701cPUAhVL74MKHRQ6B2oQyjcISw&ei=Mn5EWfWMJcvejwSU9JzQBg#imgrc=kwNg4EtkWMLhRM:

    Reply
  55. Aka/Tony

    Though tiger defiantly beats bear though, sorry, black bears NEVER dominate them. my bad. I was going crazy. https://www.google.com/search?q=polar+bear+kills+lion&safe=active&hl=en&site=webhp&tbm=isch&imgil=SndvDEIbiH_uHM%253A%253B2hFaaijAvsQXfM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fboards.straightdope.com%25252Fsdmb%25252Fshowthread.php%25253Ft%2525253D661341&source=iu&pf=m&fir=SndvDEIbiH_uHM%253A%252C2hFaaijAvsQXfM%252C_&usg=__2YeRSA2v_dgT5tlGYGz6Roir4gY%3D&biw=1404&bih=816&ved=0ahUKEwj17f701cPUAhVL74MKHRQ6B2oQyjcISw&ei=Mn5EWfWMJcvejwSU9JzQBg#imgrc=c9snm3uQbLlCaM: Oh my god. Those tigers eyes. You want some funny videos? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWtBtDLq7lY Heres more: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtZ-8jQj5qc

    Reply
    1. Aka/Tony

      That is a completely irrelevant animal, though they are just grizzly bears on kodiak island. That has nothing to do with this fight. So try to stay on topic boy.

      Reply
  56. David Nalianya Sasaka

    I thought the lion was the most fierce animal under the sun, I was wrong.

    Reply
      1. James W.

        Tiger beats bear..
        To a territory boss male tiger, bears are on the menu..

        Lion pride-boss in his prime – still outbeasts the tiger, though..
        ..since its in his nature to dominate all-comers, or die trying..
        & the lion def’ has the edge in both tools & talent – for fighting.. & winning..
        ..its what he’s done, & had to do – as a life-long mission – to get to be the boss..

        Reply
    1. James W.

      AKA/Trashy..
      Yeah, for sure..
      I do spit on your trash, since it is such bear-grade stuff..

      Your fan-boy ‘fave’ raving is stinking up the thread..
      Stay on topic, kid..

      A tiger who habitually makes the bear his food of choice,
      & has worked out the best methods of despatching the
      fat-as furbag – will still be shocked – if confronted by a
      boss lion – who has the advantage of extensive expertise in
      defeating big, powerful, fight-adept, fully maned male lions..

      Reply
  57. Aka/Tony

    LIONS ARE NOT BIGGER AND STRONGER THAN TIGERS IDIOT! Bear grade stuff is actually a complement, since bears know how to open car doors while lots can’t, which proves their way smarter than lions. You’re as dumb as a lion. A lion can’t kill a tiger just because he has a ‘killer spirit”, tigers have even stronger ‘killer spirits”, as well as their brains being much bigger. By the way their are no bears in Africa, so lions can’t and wouldn’t hunt them like tigers do. Buffalo natural kill lions. The fact that you claim a lion will defeat a 3 ton rhino, proves you are insane. I’ve also heard you think a lion alone can kill a fully grown African bush elephant. I’m laughing my head off, man. You really think nothing can beat lion, can you? Even a 6 1/2 African bush elephant. We truly are all laughing at you James.

    Reply
    1. James W.

      AKA/Troll..
      “We truly are laughing at you…”
      ‘Stupid boy’ looking in the mirror.. L.O.L…

      I wrote that elephants are natural prey items for lions.. & its a fact, kid..
      See the ‘Kratt Bros’ episode which shows how lions do this..
      ..including “Even a 6 1/2 African bush elephant.”- in the hunt..

      Why do you think that bears do not live in Africa anymore?
      Bears cannot make a living in lion territory, & nor can tigers..

      Lion advantages ensure this situation, even a ‘stupid boy’ should get this..

      Reply
      1. Aka/Tony

        Oh my god. Find me a video of a lion alone actually kill a fully grown 6 1/2 ton African bush elephant. The hunt is a show, you idiot. I’ve seen every episode and not once has a lion alone killed a fully grown 61/2 ton African bush elephant. Please, tell me why a lion can kill a tiger. This is the size difference. /Users/monicavaca/Desktop/5445023-3573818667-TlVGj.jpg You clearly don’t know what a fact is. A killer tiger would destroy a lion in a fight. Even a South Chinese tiger would beat a lion.

        Reply
  58. James W.

    aka/Trashy..
    Liger is biggest cat..
    Lion is sire of liger…

    & in the wild today, measurements – as taken in the field,
    show that – on average, lions are bigger than tigers..

    But actually the size of healthy adult lions & tigers
    shows considerable overlap, & yet its a fact, the significant
    cat attributes give both the biggest cat species, tiger & lion,
    a major advantage in combat capability over the bear..

    Big boss lion is though, for sure – the ‘King’ – so get that straight, kid..

    Reply
  59. Aka/Tony

    A liger would destroy a lion in a fight. Just admit it. Liger is not classified as a big cat, it’s a hybrid between the two biggest. One being bigger than the other. Yeah, totally… an average lion is bigger than an average SIBERIAN TIGER, which averages 700 pounds, your own website that said the largest lion ever was 800 pound. That mega fat lion is way too fat for combat. he’s not supposed to be that heavy. The website also said average African lions are 410 pounds. You say that website was accurate (which it was) yet hear you are saying lion are bigger than tigers. Also, that quiz was from National Geographic, which is the best site, no other site is as accurate as it, because they actually film the animals and have discovered that tigers are bigger than lions. It’s on that quiz! The quiz says tigers are bigger, which is made by National Geographic, and unless you have a better source than National Geographic, just shut you’re ass up.

    Reply
  60. Aka/Tony

    A liger would destroy a lion in a fight. Just admit it. Liger is not classified as a big cat, it’s a hybrid between the two biggest. One being bigger than the other. Yeah, totally… an average lion is bigger than an average SIBERIAN TIGER, which averages 700 pounds, your own website that said the largest lion ever was 800 pound. That mega fat lion is way too fat for combat. he’s not supposed to be that heavy. The website also said average African lions are 410 pounds. You say that website was accurate (which it was) yet hear you are saying lion are bigger than tigers. Also, that quiz was from National Geographic, which is the best site, no other site is as accurate as it, because they actually film the animals and have discovered that tigers are bigger than lions. It’s on that quiz! The quiz says tigers are bigger, which is made by National Geographic, and unless you have a better source than National Geographic, just shut up.

    Reply
  61. James W.

    AKA/Puny..
    Jeeze kid..
    Try & get a grip.. what a ‘stupid boy’..
    National Geo is yet another ‘entertainment channel’..

    You don’t even know what proper scientific research is..
    & like your troll-buddy rob, you avoid it, even when its in your face..

    Lion >tiger>bear.. fact..

    Reply
  62. Aka/Tony

    National geographic is not an ‘entertainment show.’ They film animals all over the world. I know this because my aunt works their. Please, do so present a site better than National Geographic. Rob is not my buddy we are actually arguing right now. It’s actually: Lion<bear<tiger. The fact is lion can't compete with either tiger or bear. Tigers and bears are on a whole different level.

    Reply
    1. James W.

      aka/tiny..
      Kid, just what’s with..
      .. the perseverative ‘stupid boy’ routine?
      You got an Aspergers syndrome diagnosis yet?

      Try & understand.. lions & tigers are close cousins..
      ..both big cats show significant evolutionary advances as carnivores – over bears..

      & being extra-fat sure won’t help – the flat-footed, bow-legged brownie..
      ..to combat the ruthlessly adept killer techniques of the biggest panthera duo..

      You also know that Nat Geo, which you put so much store in, duly notes that..
      ..the boss lion in the wild, out beasts the tiger, which we know, naturally preys on bear..

      Thus its lion>tiger>bear, & your ‘fave’ fantasies – won’t alter this essential fact..

      Reply
      1. Aka/Tony

        You just don’t get it James. Size means something! The lion is 550 pounds at max. The bear is 1,800 pounds at max. The bears weight isn’t just off of fat, it’s muscle. Tigers on the other hand, use their brains when they fight bear. They have won the majority of fights.

        Reply
  63. rob

    Why do you think that bears do not live in Africa anymore?

    http://planetearthscienceart.blogspot.com/2010/07/africas-only-bear-brief-natural-history.html

    Atlas bears became extinct due to over hunting by humans. it had nothing to do with predation by Lions.
    Btw, Lions do not kill 6 ton bush elephants on one one. Please don’t try to pass off evidence of a pride attacking and killing an infant or juvenille as proof. They avoid big daddy like the plague. Why? They’d get crushed under his massive weight.

    Reply
    1. James W.

      rob/troll..
      Atlas bears, a form of brownie..
      ..were on the menu for the Barbary lion..
      & were dominated by them, totally.
      ( FYI rob, this scenario was also repeated, over centuries,
      in the Roman arena games, & later by the Muslim rulers.)

      North Africa was in an area where scarce resources meant that
      lions didn’t form prides – as they do elsewhere, but lived more
      as tigers do.. & FYI tigers dominate bears in their shared habitats, too.

      South of the Sahara, even though there is plenty of prey,
      life is much tougher – & bears simply could not compete..
      & were goneburgers, long, long since..

      Reply
  64. rob

    ions teeth and claws from doing anything but sort of hurt it) have more stamina, smarter, and with far more powerful deadly paw swipes

    James, how much longer are you going to post bullshit like this? Lions do not have more stamina than Kodiak or Polar bears. Their paw and bite force are also inferior. Lions are hunters. They are built for speed and quick kills. Bears have been filmed fighting for hours to exert dominance over a herd. You know this is true. That info can be found on many unbiased websites backed by true scientific research. Hell, if I wanted too, I could make a website that says an earthworm would beat a rhino. Some idiot out there would believe it too.

    Reply
    1. James W.

      Rob/troll..
      What an eggburger..

      Bears “fighting for hours” simply shows how amateur they are as killers.. pathetic..
      ..a boss lion will deal to such fat-as ineptitude swiftly, & with expert precision..

      See that awful instance of the bear-fan – who thought he’d befriended wild brownies..
      ..you can listen to the recording of the hapless fool as he is literally, & slowly.. eaten alive..

      A boss lion kills – far more effectively, & quickly, by comparison, being an adept professional..
      & he may choose to apply a crippling bite 1st, to disable a large opponent,
      or for purposes of deliberate psychological intimidation, in the case of hyenas,
      or other lions – territorial interlopers, & pretenders to his throne..

      Fat-as fur-bags bum-fighting “for hours” like skid-row drunks – are a joke, like you rob..
      ..they aint gonna stand up for long – against real hard-out, true-school, boss-lion thuggery.

      & as for stamina.. didn’t you yourself post that vid of the poor old 1/2 dead lion
      still gamely taking on the brutish buffalo bull, & fighting to the death, over many hours..

      Reply
  65. rob

    James W.
    July 15, 2017

    I’m an idiot Rob. I seek conformation bias,not facts.

    Yes you do james and have for years

    Reply
    1. James W.

      rob/troll..
      Indeed..
      Since I 1st pointed out your propensity for being stuck on it, rob…
      “Confirmation bias” is an ” I do it” fault – you seemingly cannot shrug off rob..

      Funny how “I do it” is so like ” idiot” , isn’t it rob-troll..
      & yet another troll only post from you.. due to your ‘cognitive dissonance’..
      ..since the facts crush you – down, just like a bears ego, when bashed over, by a boss big cat..

      Reply
  66. rob

    ..since the facts crush you – down, j
    No, James it is you who has pushed facts aside and sought conformation bias. I keep using conformation bias because it fits you like a shrunken T-Shirt.

    Btw, chew on this link from PBS ( You’ll regard it as a bears lovers site,but oh well) . You are still dead wrong and seek conformation bias from questionable / opinionated blogs by writers who have no background in science.

    http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/arctic-bears-bear-intelligence/779/

    Held in awe by Native American Indians, classic characters in folklore, feared, trapped, hunted, displayed in zoos and made to perform in circuses, the bear has long had a complicated relationship with humans. The bear intimidates with its size and strength, but it may be the bear’s undeniable intelligence that causes us to revere the creature even as we fear him.

    Considered by many wildlife biologists to be one of the most intelligent land animals of North America,

    We’ve witnessed them performing complex tasks — a sign of an ability to learn and process information. We’ve seen circus bears balance on balls, ride vehicles or roller skate, and play sports and musical instruments. Zookeepers and animal trainers consider bears to be smarter than dogs.

    Like humans, bears are omnivores. It’s well known that omnivores are often substantially smarter than more specialized feeders

    A grizzly’s memory is so sharp that he can remember where they encountered a certain food ten or more years earlier. And bears remember familiar animals for years, recognizing them and identifying their social status from a distance as far as 2,000 feet away.

    To learn survival skills from their mother, cubs spend several years with her. She educates them about what plants are good to eat and where to find them. By the time a juvenile bear leaves its mother, it knows what plant foods are available at each time of the season, and what habitats are likely to have those foods over a very large area. That knowledge serves them well as they move into new areas, learning and remembering where new food sources are found in a new environment. This knowledge is also critical to finding food when food sources change drastically from year to year depending upon weather and climate.

    I doubt you’ll click the link because it doesn’t jive with your conformation bias.

    I’ll go back to the third paragraph. Zookeepers and animal trainers consider the bears intelligence to be greater than dogs. That puts them in the upper percentile of higher primates. They blow lions and tigers out of the water in that category,

    James, You continue to dig a deeper hole. I still have more ammo to bury you. Fuck with the bull and you get the horns.

    Reply
    1. James W.

      rob/troll..
      “bury you” L.O.L…
      That link has a cogent bear-relevant intelligence/motivation quote:
      “…constantly devising new ways to get at garbage.”

      In Africa, lions have learned to use paved roads to help getting
      real big hoofed beasts quickly off their feet, & use the presence
      of humans – as shields to get close for a stealth attack..

      Again, rob, I’d pointed out your propensity for ‘ confirmation bias’..
      & which you ‘parrot’ back – lamely, & inaccurately – as a troll ploy..
      ..so just keep grubbing in the dirt, bear-wise, eh, rob..

      & traditional circus bears get the dumb-as clown role, unlike the fearsome big cats..

      Reply
  67. rob

    It’s well known that omnivores are often substantially smarter than more specialized feeders

    There you have it. Omnivores are smarter than carnivores and herbivores. That’s science 101. Looks like another category the feline loses in.

    Reply
    1. James W.

      rob/troll..
      ..you still..
      ..go on & on – with the unscientific blather..

      Here’s some actual research study info, from a science faculty,
      at the University of Malaga, Spain.. concerning..
      “…Performance of the Carnivorian Forelimb.”

      “…modern felids use their forearms for manipulating & subduing
      their prey before the killing bite, thus needing a powerful triceps
      brachii to exert enough force…
      …ursids have less mechanical advantage of the triceps brachii…”

      & yet further cat musculoskeletal capability advantage over bears..

      ” …in felids, both the wrist & elbow joints exhibited a large degree
      of mobility, which was reflective of the claw equipped foreleg being
      used as a hunting weapon.”

      Oh dear, rob.. as the science also shows..
      .. the big cats also win – in paw-power, grasping & striking ability..
      & bears, like you rob, are the loser, once again..

      Reply
      1. Aka/Tony

        If anyone you’re a loser, James. You think a male lion alone can beat an elephant! Plus, you’re precious lion is the loser to both bear and tiger. Lions are a whole level lower, maybe at the jaguars level, even a bit lower maybe.

        Reply
  68. Aka/Tony

    How did you write a long comment? The system won’t let me do that. Also if you’re interested in the lion vs tiger page you might want to check that out. By the way, tigers are much smarter than bears. They simply have developed a hunting technique that is just too complicated for bears. I understand you’re opinion completely. Hell, a bear could beat a tiger. I just think the Siberian tiger has more advantages. Thank you for putting up a good debate, unlike James.

    Reply
    1. James W.

      AKA/Tiny-troll..
      Kid, try & learn..
      Trolling is a lame deal..

      You & rob both, are pathetically ‘ fave’ fixated..
      ..so you react emotively – when your value-invested ideas are de-bunked..

      Hopefully you can mature mentally, & learn to accept scientifically validated data..
      I think rob knows that tigers naturally see bears as prey, but prefers trolling..
      ..just as bears prefer garbage, so rob likes to emulate his ‘fave’, with garbage, too..

      Reply
  69. Aka/Tony

    Are you a scientist? I didn’t think so… how can any of us trust what you say when you claim lions bigger than tigers. You are the only person here who says that. So, you’re beloved lion is 60% muscle? Yeah, well the Siberian tiger is 72.6% muscle, which proves the tiger is heavier. You really are giving the weakest argument here. It’s funny to watch you say completely insane stuff, like 1v1 lions beat elephants… keep on trash talking, man!

    Reply
    1. James W.

      AKA/Troll..
      Hey kid..
      Try & be less of a troll..
      If you actually read – what I wrote..
      ..the science shows what has been measured..
      & then published in peer reviewed reports, & the “60%” figure
      was for ‘skeletal’ muscle – now what does your “72.6” represent..
      ..where is it sourced from?

      You do realise that tiger/lion/jaguar are close cousins, right?
      Apart from the jaguar being a scaled down version, of course.

      & the lion has certain adaptation advantages in cardiac output.

      You have seen numerous videos showing lions hunting elephants..
      ..which is what I – correctly – claimed & yet you so foolishly denied..

      I have also posted real wildlife video of male lions hunting..
      ..another fact which you went feral troll over, & were again proved wrong..
      Actually kid, its pretty funny when even your mentor in trolling, rob..
      ..gets on your case for pulling the ‘stupid boy’ routine..

      Fact is, tiger does naturally prey on bear..
      ..but in a fight, boss lion beats down his stripey cuz.
      & your ‘fave’ kid, the jag, is outgunned by both the big boys..

      Reply
  70. Aka/Tony

    James =JJ

    Yeah, the jaguar does get beat by lion and tiger. Because they’re twice his size! (In exception for the tiger being 3 times it’s size.) But tiger beats lion. I have listed countless facts why the lion would win. Look, JJ. I haven’t seen a single video of a male lion alone killing a fully grown African bush elephant which is 6 tons.

    Reply
  71. James W.

    AKA/turkey..
    Boy.. you do know..
    ..this is the tiger beats bear thread, right..

    Why do you keep going on about irrelevant stuff, which you just made up?
    Seems likely, you maybe have mental development deficiencies, like rob, huh kid..

    Tiger hunts bear, its a natural fact.. but tiger cannot compete in lion country..
    ..this is also a fact, as shown by the history of both the two cousin species – in India..

    Don’t try & deny this boy, its a scientific reality – so no more trolling now..
    ..you are coming across here, as just a rotten little spoiled brat..

    Reply
    1. AKa/Tony

      I know tigers hunt bears. I have agreed with you for this fight on this thread. However, the tiger wins against lion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvcE_5uNShM So, National geographic DOES favor the tiger. Check the title. Looks like you were making stuff up, man. ^_^ Also tigers territory doesn’t overlap with lions in Central India, so it’s rare for them to encounter. But it does happen. Like Rob said, you’ve lost this debate, and you’ve lost badly. ^_^

      Reply
      1. James W.

        AKA/Tiny..
        Jeeze kid..
        ..what a loser.. just like a stripey big cat vs his tougher golden cousin..
        ..seriously, cant you tell a faked tiger-fan video when you see it?
        & where was the Nat Geo branding?
        Oh right, there wasn’t any.. L.O.L…

        Reply
        1. Aka/Tony

          Loo up lion vs tiger national geographic. he first video to come up’s title is “National Geographic favors the tiger”.

          Reply
          1. James W.

            AKA/idiot..
            Jeeze kid..
            ..can you really be so gullible?
            ..anyone can put any bogus title & commentary over a clip..
            ..did you see an official Nat Geo logo on the vid.. as the real ones have?
            No, its not there. & did you see a tiger beating a lion in the video clip?
            No, its not there, either, – is it kid.. what a dumb-as you are kid, to ‘believe’ it..
            “You stupid boy!”

          2. Aka/Tony

            I see that you, are even more insane then usual. Therefore, I am not listening to a word you say.

  72. rob

    James

    Are you an idiot or a flamer? You’ve lost every debate badly, So, what is it? Flamer or idiot?

    Reply
    1. James W.

      rob/pervo..
      rob, you’ve lost..
      ..lost the discussion, point-by-point, & lost the plot too..
      ..now you revert to sickening homo-pervert trolling, & so revealing yourself..

      No wonder you have such a ‘love’ for the biggest, fattest, dirt-grubbing fur-bags.. ugh..

      Even a hungry Amur tiger would likely leave your stinking carcase for the cannibal
      brownies to scavenge though, you’re just too greasy, fat & filthy – for a tiger’s taste..

      Reply
  73. Jacob

    I thing that the grizzly has the advantage because the have huge claws and powerful paws they have been known to break the backs of wolves and black Bears with one swipe

    Reply
  74. Shane

    I read a few people mention that tigers are used to hunting prey larger than the grizzly. Do any of you know just how large a full grown moose is? 2 tons!!! And something like 13-15 ft tall. You also compare the grizzly apparently on the same scale as the brown bear. The grizzly although a relative to the brown bear is much fiercer and larger. When you see a brown bear in the woods, you just keep an eye on them. If you see a grizzly in the woods, you keep a gun on him. Seems like a very biased article with no real facts from actual encounters. Back in roman era, exotic beast were pitted against each other for betting and show purpose. I don’t see how these two amazing animals have never met in real life.

    Reply
  75. Al

    The Plains Grizzly of the North American Great Plains doesn’t exist anymore. They fed mostly on the great herds bufalo, now which are few. An Alaskan biologist from Montana told me these were the largest of the North American bears, including the Polar Bear.

    In the Time-Life leather-bound books about the old west, one them stated death matches were held between plains grizzly bears vs lions and tigers for amusement and gambling. The matches were held in either pits or cages. The book didn’t state whether the tigers were Bengal or Amur tigers. In all cases stated in the book, the plains grizzly won…in less than 60 seconds. The lions and tigers had no chance to stalk or ambush. It was one on one, face to face, no chance to run.

    The Plains Grizzlies were like modern day MMA fighters on high protein diets all packed with muscle and fast.

    No chance for the big cats.

    My favorite animals:

    Killer Whales (They eat sharks)
    Eagles (They grab and throw big goats off cliffs)
    Amur Tigers (They live in a cool place and kill bears).

    Al

    Reply
  76. Swapnil

    James, man you are a feline fanboy; that too a very hardcore one. You are trying to make big cats sound like they are some kind of unbeatable killing machines, which was destined to kill.

    Just remember they too have their limits and tendencies, for e.g. just make them rum 500 meters and they are tired to death.

    You must be delusional if you think your “prime pride boss male Lion” could beat much stronger bear and tiger. Do some research.

    Reply
  77. Swapnil

    There are cases of Siberian tiger hunting Kodiak bear for food, and if a tiger🐯 can hunt a 1000 pounds just imagine what he could do to a 420 pound lion.

    Reply
    1. Aka/Tony

      Don’t listen to James or Rob they’re both idiots. Especially Rob. Oh, that idiot is a disgrace to animal research. Man, I thought you were long gone! You haven’t commented in a few months.

      Reply
    2. James W.

      Well, Swapnil..
      In fact, there is no need..
      ..to “imagine” what the boss lion can do..
      ..esp’ a male lion who has grown to 550+ pounds on rich quantities of buffalo meat.

      You can see for yourself on the wildlife videos, for such a masterly lion is truly..
      ‘King’ of his territory, & as ruler of his pride, he sees that no beast may pass unchallenged..

      No tiger could risk a confrontation with such a pride boss, & as for a fat-as bear..
      ..any bear that showed himself, would simply be another item on the menu for the pride..

      Reply
    3. James W.

      Swapnil..
      It is you who is “delusional”..

      No tigers do currently live wild – in North America,
      & Kodiak bears thus have no such predators to contend with..

      But if.. a typical boss male lion coalition did visit Kodiak for a summer’s
      season of bear hunting, them tough tawny thugs would just wreak havoc..
      & the fat-as brownies’d be suffering hapless, under the true apex carnivores rule..

      Reply
  78. Aka/Tony

    Big cats are pretty lit, but to think they can take out elephants like James says… B.S. Yeah. A tiger wins against both lion and bear.

    Reply
  79. Swapnil

    I see you haven’t changed a bit in my absence, not surprised though.

    In fact, their is no need either to imagine what a Grizzly bear can do. That fat-as bear has huge layers of fat, fats have their own advantages it would be very difficult for a lion to cut through Grizzly’s skin and lion’s canines aren’t longer enough as well as their claws.

    Reply
  80. James W.

    Swampy..
    Read the thread?
    No, thats why you’ve got nil idea, as ever..

    Why you’d “imagine” that a “huge layer of fat” will be of any use.. to a bear..
    ..except for overwintering/hibernating/lazing about in a den for months..

    Certainly such a lardy layer is of negative value in a combat with a true killer..
    & since bear skin is so easily torn by blunt dirt-grubbing claws..
    .. a big cat’s real evolutionary advantages in sharp, extensible, meat-hooking,
    & slicing-dicing independantly functional claws will flense that bear so easily..

    Plus, any bear that has only ever felt the bite of his own kind – at worst..
    ..is going to be shocked & awed, by the much more capable teeth/jaw/bite prowess..
    of a specialist, professional killer carnivore, viz: the biggest panthera species..

    Reply
  81. Karl

    The shit one comes across while drinking, the answer is one all over the net there are plenty of cage matches (sadly enough) where bears are put to fight big cats including tigers. I have read that Siberian tigers prey on brown bears, but of course these are smaller than them not the really large ones. I don’t know why its always Siberian tiger vs Grizzly why not make it a polar bear which is way bigger and eats animals much larger than even a ligar. If you really think a tiger would win, I say, search the web for these clips. I will not post them because they are cruel and I don’t believe in fighting any animals, but I even found them on Youtube in a few second. For anyone who loves an animal, it is easy to see why people are so passionate on both sides but everything I saw in the unnatural habitat of a cage match showed a bear winning against lions, tigers, and even other bears – oh my

    Reply
    1. James W.

      Karl..
      yeah right.. as if..
      I aint afraid to post the appropos vid-link..
      See here below:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlURaukAA8

      Fact is, a prime boss big panthera – rips fat-as brownie..
      to shreds, & if’n he feels like it.. jest to keep extra warm..
      wears a flayed off, bear-skin vest..

      Reply
  82. rob

    Aka/Tony
    August 5, 2017
    Don’t listen to James or Rob they’re both idiots. Especially Rob. Oh, that idiot is a disgrace to animal research. Man, I thought you were long gone! You haven’t commented in a few months.

    You are the Idiot Tony. I’m still around. I can only hope you gain wisdom as you get older. I didn’t take pride in burying a young child in a debate. You really need to open your mind young man

    Reply
  83. rob

    Swapnil
    August 5, 2017
    There are cases of Siberian tiger hunting Kodiak bear for food, and if a tiger🐯 can hunt a 1000 pounds just imagine what he could do to a 420 pound lion.

    Tigers do not exist on Kodiak island.

    I see this forum is not a good place for research lol

    Reply
  84. Aka/Tony

    Oh shut up bozo you’re no better? He meant Kodiak bears, as in grizzly bears, which are the same animal dumbass.

    Reply
  85. rob

    Oh shut up bozo you’re no better? He meant Kodiak bears, as in grizzly bears, which are the same animal dumbass.

    Reply ↓

    LMMFGDAOF

    I still see you two idiots trying to debate facts. I gave up arguing with idiots like you and James. They take you down to their level and beat you with experience. I’ll stick with facts and keep you buried 😉

    Reply
    1. Aka/Tony

      It’s simple, but not for you! Don’t you realize Kamchatka bears are not a separate sub species from kodiak bears? Sure kodiak bears can get huge… but that does not make them a separate species from grizzly/Kamchatka bears. They are only slightly bigger on average. Siberian tigers hunt, kill and fight off Kamchatka bears. Put that together, idiot.

      Reply
  86. James W.

    rob/underground..
    Facts rob?
    You’d never let them get in way of your bear worship..
    Your sticky dumpster-derived bear crap stinks.. L.O.L…
    & that’s a fact..

    Brownie gets stomped by stripey.. there’s another.. FACT.

    Reply

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